[NZLUG] Email Server

Volker Kuhlmann hidden at paradise.net.nz
Tue Jun 11 20:03:18 NZST 2013

On Sun 09 Jun 2013 13:04:50 NZST +1200, Mark Foster wrote:

> Sorry but this is an OTT position. I've been in the ISP game for a
> substantial proportion of my professional career and been directly
> involved in enforcing Terms and Conditions in each of those jobs. At no
> stage did we consider ourselves subject to any legal jurisdiction other
> than the country within which we were incorporated and operating.
> And contrary to your implication, ISPs don't necessarily want to simply
> 'toe the line' when an American piece of legally-served gobbledegook
> arrives.   Thus 'except as required by law' is entirely acceptable as
> the only law they're obeyed to follow is the one they're working within.
> This is also defined in plenty of ISP service contracts.

I assume you're right about the appliccable law if there is a company
address given in NZ. It may still not be so easy to determine what laws
apply, I understand with international who-owns-whos it can get quite
complex. Your "only law they're obeyed to follow" is technically true
but fails to say anything much, in particular, whether any other legal
paperworks will definitely be ignored. Your experience sounds good, but
what counts is the terms, and whatever they don't say explicitly, the
ISP is not bound to do for me. In my past readings of such terms ISPs
were not at all clear here. If they really were that clear about their
position they should put that in their terms, otherwise it's, say, open
to interpretation.

> Where something grossly illegal or immoral was going on and an offshore
> party was the advisor, it was our own T&C we enforced - that's it.

Crikey, do you really want ISPs to watch morals now?!?? Whos? Holy cow!
Let's better not go there. I expect an ISP in a free country to concern
themselves only with any use of their services that's illegal under NZ
law - then I don't have a problem with assisting NZ authorities. But
only then, and ideally the terms should reflect that. I find that being
cautious, not over the top, especially given the worldwide bullying by
some country in this matter.


Volker Kuhlmann			is list0570 with the domain in header.
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